Open letter to ETS

[Jim Fisher]

If you guys want to keep my business along with many others on here you have to do something about the lotion whores on E Bay. In recent years I didn't hear about customers coming into my salon buying the lotions on line from my employees but with the economy being what it is customers are buying from e bay quite a bit.

This has drastically cut product sales.

Get rid of the major players on e bay or contact E bay and tell them that they cannot sell your products on line.
I know other business have done this with their products.

BTW.. Trevor, I hear you have been more receptive to on line so please respond buddy

[Brian Oshman]

Originally Posted by Jim Fisher

BTW.. Trevor, I hear you have been more receptive to on line so please respond buddy

Trevor sold the company.

[Brian Oshman]

...besides, they make more on E Bay volume then off of you so you are not threatening them by going elseware. Since you will stop carrying their products the rest of your customers will E Bay up too.

[dcjjp1]

I just dropped them all together and went with Max's stuff. Better profit margins and product.

[palmstanning]

I must agree! You will also lose us if something isnt done! Thanks

[RobertK]

Guys there is nothing more that can be done. Call and ask how much money they have thrown at the problem. Supply and demand. There is a huge supply and a huge demand so it will be on ebay since there is also a 500% markup!

[Ezliving_Jim]

At one time, CT was my #1 line. After Max left, DS became my #1 line. I quit CT after ETS bought the line.

I didn't add any of the new DS products introduced after ETS bought them. DS was my #1 line for several years. DS share of my sales has dropped dramatically this year.

I'm still aggravated that ETS discontinued Acrylisafe gallons. Absolutely senseless move.

ETS acts as if that which is good for them is good for the tanning industry.

That's delusional.

"The bigger they are, the harder they fall."

[JeffK]

I won't recycle what I've been saying on 2 or 3 other threads about diversion..

But this post just reinforces my belief that we're trying to fight the problem with ignorance while blaming the manufacturers, eBay, the internet as a whole, our clients and our online competitors..

Blaming everyone but ourselves..

[imhere]

When I first started I thought ETS was the only way to go. Why? Because they did a good job marketing that belief. It didn't take long for me to realize there were other options.

I am only one, but I am fighting the ETS establishment by not purchasing their junk. I will admit it is becoming harder as they gobble up everyone and everything around them, their pockets get deeper and their branding becomes more substanial.

Do whatever you want ETS. I have options and power of choice, so I will continue to support the companies that can offer my salons high quality equipment and products coupled with excellent service and a desire to see me succeed until that is no longer an option.

[Din]

Why is it illegal to sell something on Ebay?

They bought the lotion, fair and square and now are reselling it. Someone wants to buy it and so they do.....it ain't going to stop, it's only going to get bigger.

If i found a source to get lotion at 80% off and resell it on ebay and make as much profit as what salon owners are doing, selling it in their salons, i'd do it too.

Business is business....remember that. It's a cut throat industry, being self employed. So either you cut the throat or get your own cut.

Do whatever it takes to survive. And that is what ETS is doing along with the Ebay'ers

[theislandtan]

Originally Posted by Din

Why is it illegal to sell something on Ebay?
If i found a source to get lotion at 80% off and resell it on ebay and make as much profit as what salon owners are doing, selling it in their salons, i'd do it too.

Business is business....remember that. It's a cut throat industry, being self employed. So either you cut the throat or get your own cut.

Do whatever it takes to survive.

I agree.

[Jim Fisher]

Brian

Thank You

I meant Bill Pipp

E bayers can not use the logos. Ask the hatfields.
Ive tried to buy some things on e bay before from other companies and the next day the item would be gone. I ask E bay and they said that the company who makes the product ask us to take it down. Also something to do with No internet sales from dist. or customers. If the product was used it could be put up.

[JeffK]

Originally Posted by Jim Fisher

Brian

Thank You

I meant Bill Pipp

E bayers can not use the logos. Ask the hatfields.
Ive tried to buy some things on e bay before from other companies and the next day the item would be gone. I ask E bay and they said that the company who makes the product ask us to take it down. Also something to do with No internet sales from dist. or customers. If the product was used it could be put up.

1) You cannot use a graphic of the logo; but

2) You can take a picture of the item and if it has the logo on it, so be it.

3) You can use the full product name and manufacturer in the title and/or description.

4) eBay takes down any item at any request of a trademark holder who files a VERO complaint. They do not investigate the complaint, they simply remove the auction. However the problem becomes they have violated first sale doctrine; so:

5) The company who has the listing removed this has immediately exposed themself to a lawsuit provided the listing only contained pictures and descriptions of the items as mentioned in #2 and #3.

6) As for "Also something to do with No internet sales from dist. or customers. If the product was used it could be put up" -- not sure if you're just quoting someone else but that is complete, total, 100%, absolute, without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt, nonsense.

[JeffK]

In fact ...

Techdirt: eBay Strikes Back, Sues For Frivolous DMCA Takedowns

Here's a case where eBay themselves took the unusual step of taking on the complainer..

Look guys. People can sell tanning lotion online. So there's no sense griping at manufacturers because they CAN NOT stop it.

[Tanning Queen]

There are companies out there that do not allow their resellers to have their products on ebay or even a online store. Arbonne.

So it CAN be done, if the manuf. wants to keep the prices up and support their bread and butter. THe people who work hard to educate the user and sell the products.

[JeffK]

Originally Posted by Tanning Queen

There are companies out there that do not allow their resellers to have their products on ebay or even a online store. Arbonne.

So it CAN be done, if the manuf. wants to keep the prices up and support their bread and butter. THe people who work hard to educate the user and sell the products.

You're absolutely right.. Arbonne can refuse to permit authorized sales online and terminate whatever agreements you have with them if they catch you doing it..

But we need to realize that there's a very real difference between not authorizing your resellers to sell online and taking action to forcibly shut down someone's eBay auction.. particulary if Arbonne (in this case) has no formal relationship with the eBay seller.. (ie: some guy participating in a diversion scheme)

[Jim Fisher]

jeff

look up the hatfield case won by ETS

[Ezliving_Jim]

Hatfield case did not involve ebay selling.

[JeffK]

Originally Posted by Jim Fisher

jeff

look up the hatfield case won by ETS

FindLaw | Cases and Codes (case info for anyone else interested)

There seems to be alot here including poor jury instructions, changing courts, unanswered lawsuits, summary judgments by a JUDGE in favor of the Hatfields saying they didn't violate any trademarks at all - which then got reversed by a jury by the looks of it.. It's a complicated case that seems there's alot more to it than selling on eBay.. in fact I don't even remember seeing anything about eBay in it but I could be wrong..

And I know since it's lotion it's more relevant to this audience but there's alot of action in this area..

The makers of AutoCAD are being hauled into court for $10M by an eBay seller because the company shut down his auction.. Nader's public advocacy group has taken up the cause..

eBay Seller Sues Autodesk for $10 Million

(Latest: Motion by Autodesk to dismiss the case denied)
http://www.citizen.org/documents/vernororder.pdf


Disney got its ass handed to them by a stay-at-home mom after they pulled her stuff off eBay..

Tabberone's Disney Lawsuit.


Brian Kopp sued Blizzard Entertainment after they stopped him from selling his guide to their "World of Warcraft" game claiming trademark infringment.. he won.. well Blizzard settled by allowing him to continue selling it..

There's a hundred other cases where the manufacturers are have stopped internet sales only to be brought into court and defeated or they backed down upon realizing they were in the wrong.. I'm not sure what happened in the ETS case but I certainly don't view that as a court order against you or I selling AG stuff online.. maybe what the Hatfields, whoever they are, were doing amounted to more of a conspirator type situation, and the case was ruled on that rather than just the plain act of selling lotion online.. but I'm just guessing..

[Jim Fisher]

all of their lotion was auctioned off . I know of one owner of a big lotion company who was there at the auction to make sure that the lotions didnt go back online. They bought them up.
ETS won the suit. Look at old trade mags. to read the write up.