Designer Skin Sold on Internet - TanToday

Darla · 14th November 2005, 04:25 PM

More Salon owners need to complain to Designer Skin that their products are being sold on the internet! According the Designer Skin, they do not allow this to happen. Take a minute to look over the internet at how many people are selling their products at a ridulous price! Our salon is in a college town, and I hear students tell me all the time they order their products on line at discount! I think it is time that Designer Skin step-up and do something to put these internet people out of business!!!

bunz1969 · 14th November 2005, 07:37 PM

I sent an email to DS the other day regarding a site that I found selling their product. Here is the reply I received:

Amy,

Tracy brought to my attention the concerns you have regarding diversion. My name is Jackie Chamberlain and I manage diversion issues here at Designer Skin. Internet diversion is an enormous problem in the tanning industry.

Designer Skin is focused on diversion and action is being taken. I am working closely with our attorney to remover diverters from the internet. Information given to us by salons concerning diversion is appreciated. Amy, thank you for the information you provided.

Feel free to contact me at anytime.

Jackie Chamberlain
Designer Skin
1430 W. Auto Drive, Suite 109
Tempe, AZ 85284
Toll Free: 1-877-756-3337, ext. 116
Fax: 480-966-6520

Jancy · 15th November 2005, 01:17 AM

It's all the lotions experiencing this, I had one of my favorite customers bring in a bottle of Tattoo tonight along with Passions she got from a catalog online. I did the whole diversion education thing with her, and then told her about possible knock off 's and how does she know what's actually in the bottle. How does she know some salon owner did refill the bottle with crap she grabbed out of the garbage can at work and sell it on line? She doesn't care. Said it was cheaper than anything she could get from me (and I'm the cheapest salon in the area...)
The customer resistance to buying lotions above $20 is amazing! Even putting their health at risk over a few bucks! You never know!

dcjjp1 · 15th November 2005, 01:01 PM

The problem is most salons are selling their free" rebate lotions online to help them get through the slower season. The companies should offer $$$ instead of free product, that alone would cut down on the internet products.

Soo · 16th November 2005, 09:34 AM

Jeff...I think your probably right on....IMHO...the lotion companies are way out of line on pricing...I know how much it cost to make, design and market a small lotion company...and even in the smallest of quantities such as 15 gallon orders...some lotions could cost nearly 250.+- gallon and thats just the lotion and those are usually 44% product which is about the highest..so if the bigger companies are buying 55 gallon drums plus...they are in the $1-2 a bottle or less for lotion...then they pay for ads, bottling,dispensors of some sort, labels, shipping,overhead,salary (what??? they make money?? lol) TM's, cutting the distys in and more...so they have a lot invested when the smoke clears as well... size is relative...

As for lotion prices....IMHO... way out of control..if retail is suggested..then why are salons pricing them higher?? and many do...and if salon cost is salon cost...why are we getting discounts off of that??? Price it at a reasonable margin and leave it...salon price stay the same at whatever it is...and so shopping distys for the best price would be irrellevant..and then we could set our own prices in our salons based on REAL numbers not what discount I can score off the disty today...It is time consuming to call 5 places to get the best deals..but worth it...

As for customers saying they can buy off here or there...I ask is it an auction? and if NO...then I will match the price with the true cost of the companies s & h and add that and it will be enuff for you to still make 100%...so why do salons chase people to cyberspace to purchase??? Keep em in your store...sure sometimes we have to compromise...but thats what makes us business people and not a bed cleaner..also I tell them this is a one time deal...unless they come up with another price match...we can do it...and still smile...

All of our unlimited packages are priced lower with lotion purchase...so my sales in lotion is killer...ie: if they buy a bottle of $20. or more I will give them $10. off the package...but thats sugg retail lotion..and the higher the level of tanning the higher the discount goes such as a $55. bottle gets you $20+ off the package ...get innovative and one needent worry nor care what anyone else is doing...I would be happy to email my tri-fold to anyone who wishes...(except u know my rule...lol within a 50 mile radius) inside has our instructions on airbrush and pricing ..outside has regular prices and specials...

Have A Great Week... Soo

Alan @ TanToday · 16th November 2005, 10:31 AM

Online lotion sales arent going away. I would rather have someone buy a diverted Designer Skin lotion over some Max Tan Walmart goo anyday. In the grand scheme of things I would like to see both disappear but it hasnt happened yet so I am not crossing my fingers that it will soon.

tanup · 16th November 2005, 10:57 AM

Soo,
Thanks for your input. I love your lotion/tanning special and I would love for you to e-mail your brochure to me villagesun@bellsouth.net

MoHo50 · 16th November 2005, 06:30 PM

Soo - I'm also interested in your broucher

howellfj50@hotmail.com
Thx

RTD · 16th November 2005, 07:35 PM

I always get a laugh when lotion producers say that they have a diversion dept.
I just did a goggle search and the first 4 sites are linked below also included is an ebay page.
Are these depts having a hard time finding these site and that is why they need our help
in finding them???

http://www.bestpricetanning.com/cgi-...age=index.html
http://www.internettanning.com/cgi-b...age=index.html
http://www.lotionsource.com/designer_skin_lotion_1.html
http://www.tanshop.com/product-manuf...igner+Skin%99/
http://search.ebay.com/Designer-Skin...fsooZ1QQfsopZ3

This is just the first 4. Goggle list 1,100,000 sites under Designer Skin Lotion.
How do they have the time to even respond to an email?

All kidding aside. This is not going to go away. Salon owners are involved. A simple net page,
almost no overhead and you can supplement your salon income. Hard to control, nearly
impossible to stop. Who is going to say that a salon isn't selling dozens of lotions monthly?
As much as the lotion companies can do, there is far too many sources that they cannot
shut off. (well, not and stay in business anyway)

IMHO, I agree with Alan. This is how it is and it will become more wide spread as time goes on.

HBT6872 · 17th November 2005, 12:27 AM

Designer Skin needs to merge with someone. Everyone has copied them and they do not have the funds for rebate programs. Someone needs to buy them.

Alan @ TanToday · 18th November 2005, 03:24 PM

http://stores.ebay.com/lotions2go

This seller had to go. Close to 4,000 feedbacks. Do the math! At least 4000 bottles of lotions in the hands of customers, not salon owners. WOW!

SunShop · 19th November 2005, 02:10 PM

I have the same problem with my salon and I probably always will. Even some of my good customers who I also consider to be friends will come in with a bottle of Bombshell and ask me what I would sell them a bottle of it for. Depending on how good of a customer they have been and if we have any promotions going at the time concerning lotions, I priced it to him with a substantial discount and he just laughed at me. He told me he bought it off the internet for less that I can buy it out of the 4-Seasons catalog. All I could say is that I cannot knock you for saving that kind of money if you are sure you are getting what you pay for. I explained to him that selling lotions is how I pay my rent, insurance, upgrade equipment, etc...He came back within two weeks and spent $65.00 with me on another kind of lotion. Some customers understand and some think we are out to rip them off. I tell them to go to their favorite dress boutique and tell the owner that you like the beautifull dress that they have in the window but they want it for what the owner paid for it. For some reason, they would not do that to the boutique owner, but they would do it to me...go figure.

Shawna1072 · 29th November 2005, 11:47 PM

Darla, I hope you are still online. I have found a very professional company that sells directly to salon owners. Not only do you avoid the mark-up of distributors, they carry product that works better than anything we have tried. Check out soleilspa.com and see if their products work for you. They cater to the higher end clientel, but that is what we have so it works for us. Plus they have a new line out called SPA GIRL and it is selling like crazy! Hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darla

More Salon owners need to complain to Designer Skin that their products are being sold on the internet! According the Designer Skin, they do not allow this to happen. Take a minute to look over the internet at how many people are selling their products at a ridulous price! Our salon is in a college town, and I hear students tell me all the time they order their products on line at discount! I think it is time that Designer Skin step-up and do something to put these internet people out of business!!!

tangenie · 30th November 2005, 01:04 AM

Every site I go on I see stores complaining about Designer Skin diversion. If it hurts your store, there are products out there that aren't on ebay. I believe it is hard for a company to stop diversion if they sell to distributors, it is much more difficult to control or limit diversion than if a company sells direct. Also, purchasing direct cuts out the middle man so you can make more money. Many companies have attacked me for my views on this subject, but to me the answer is obvious. No one will ever be able to completely stop diversion, but it can be limited substantially if you control you supply chain. That is my view. I know there are stores that love Designer Skin and other companies that are on ebay. If so, stick with them. But, if it hurts you, you can make a change.

SunShop · 30th November 2005, 10:28 AM

Chuck always told me that when I come upon sites such as these to please forward them to him and he will see what he can do about checking out this site's suppliers.

tangenie · 30th November 2005, 11:19 AM

Haven't you guys been complaining about diversion for years? And if the new product has already been diverted, what can they possibly do?

SunShop · 30th November 2005, 12:50 PM

It may not help any at all but I will at least make an effort to stop his suppliers.A few years ago I had a problem with a huge flea market which would set up in a town nearby. There was always a vendor who would have a large selection of indoor tanning lotions(priced at salon cost) including several that I carry. I contacted 4-Seasons and they sent someone to check it out and buy one so they could get the barcode and find out where these people were getting their lotion. I do not know if that was the reason but after a couple of visits by 4-Seasons, which included having the persons picture taken, they stopped showing up. You have to do something to try and stop it or stand by and let your lotion sales suffer along with your bottom line.

gottatanfl · 1st December 2005, 02:47 PM

I dont have that much problem with online lotions coming in my store. I try to keep lotions reasonable and if they can get it cheaper at some online store, I offer the same price if I can verify the price and include shipping. Have you seen the shipping cost these companies charge??
Its gonna be impossible to stop diversion overnight but we can make our customers aware that the product could be tampered with, out dated, used or any number of things. That buying from us is safer, faster and more convienent and can with added postage and handling fees sometimes save them money.

tangenie · 1st December 2005, 02:56 PM

After research my attorney discovered the 3 websites I am on are all owned by the same company. We have a total of 1 diverter and soon it will be none. What other lotion company can say that?

gottatanfl · 1st December 2005, 03:02 PM

Point is your out there. How did it happen and how long til it happens again. Dont be bragging unless you can say Never been, Never will be after all didnt I see you just celebrated 1 month? In one month your on three sites.

14th November 2005, 04:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Darla Rookie Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 31	Designer Skin Sold on Internet More Salon owners need to complain to Designer Skin that their products are being sold on the internet! According the Designer Skin, they do not allow this to happen. Take a minute to look over the internet at how many people are selling their products at a ridulous price! Our salon is in a college town, and I hear students tell me all the time they order their products on line at discount! I think it is time that Designer Skin step-up and do something to put these internet people out of business!!!

15th November 2005, 01:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jancy "Does not play well with others." Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 197	diversion It's all the lotions experiencing this, I had one of my favorite customers bring in a bottle of Tattoo tonight along with Passions she got from a catalog online. I did the whole diversion education thing with her, and then told her about possible knock off 's and how does she know what's actually in the bottle. How does she know some salon owner did refill the bottle with crap she grabbed out of the garbage can at work and sell it on line? She doesn't care. Said it was cheaper than anything she could get from me (and I'm the cheapest salon in the area...) The customer resistance to buying lotions above $20 is amazing! Even putting their health at risk over a few bucks! You never know!

15th November 2005, 01:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
dcjjp1 Hall of Famer Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,270	The problem is most salons are selling their free" rebate lotions online to help them get through the slower season. The companies should offer $$$ instead of free product, that alone would cut down on the internet products. __________________ Jeff

16th November 2005, 09:34 AM	#5 (permalink)
Soo Hall of Famer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,574	Jeff...I think your probably right on....IMHO...the lotion companies are way out of line on pricing...I know how much it cost to make, design and market a small lotion company...and even in the smallest of quantities such as 15 gallon orders...some lotions could cost nearly 250.+- gallon and thats just the lotion and those are usually 44% product which is about the highest..so if the bigger companies are buying 55 gallon drums plus...they are in the $1-2 a bottle or less for lotion...then they pay for ads, bottling,dispensors of some sort, labels, shipping,overhead,salary (what??? they make money?? lol) TM's, cutting the distys in and more...so they have a lot invested when the smoke clears as well... size is relative... As for lotion prices....IMHO... way out of control..if retail is suggested..then why are salons pricing them higher?? and many do...and if salon cost is salon cost...why are we getting discounts off of that??? Price it at a reasonable margin and leave it...salon price stay the same at whatever it is...and so shopping distys for the best price would be irrellevant..and then we could set our own prices in our salons based on REAL numbers not what discount I can score off the disty today...It is time consuming to call 5 places to get the best deals..but worth it... As for customers saying they can buy off here or there...I ask is it an auction? and if NO...then I will match the price with the true cost of the companies s & h and add that and it will be enuff for you to still make 100%...so why do salons chase people to cyberspace to purchase??? Keep em in your store...sure sometimes we have to compromise...but thats what makes us business people and not a bed cleaner..also I tell them this is a one time deal...unless they come up with another price match...we can do it...and still smile... All of our unlimited packages are priced lower with lotion purchase...so my sales in lotion is killer...ie: if they buy a bottle of $20. or more I will give them $10. off the package...but thats sugg retail lotion..and the higher the level of tanning the higher the discount goes such as a $55. bottle gets you $20+ off the package ...get innovative and one needent worry nor care what anyone else is doing...I would be happy to email my tri-fold to anyone who wishes...(except u know my rule...lol within a 50 mile radius) inside has our instructions on airbrush and pricing ..outside has regular prices and specials... Have A Great Week... Soo __________________ What Other Profession Does The Sun Shine Everyday?? Enjoy It !!

16th November 2005, 10:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
Alan @ TanToday Checks and Balances Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,158	Online lotion sales arent going away. I would rather have someone buy a diverted Designer Skin lotion over some Max Tan Walmart goo anyday. In the grand scheme of things I would like to see both disappear but it hasnt happened yet so I am not crossing my fingers that it will soon. __________________ Alan "America is too great for small dreams" - Ronald Reagan

14th November 2005, 07:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
bunz1969 All Star Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 175	I sent an email to DS the other day regarding a site that I found selling their product. Here is the reply I received: Amy, Tracy brought to my attention the concerns you have regarding diversion. My name is Jackie Chamberlain and I manage diversion issues here at Designer Skin. Internet diversion is an enormous problem in the tanning industry. Designer Skin is focused on diversion and action is being taken. I am working closely with our attorney to remover diverters from the internet. Information given to us by salons concerning diversion is appreciated. Amy, thank you for the information you provided. Feel free to contact me at anytime. Jackie Chamberlain Designer Skin 1430 W. Auto Drive, Suite 109 Tempe, AZ 85284 Toll Free: 1-877-756-3337, ext. 116 Fax: 480-966-6520

16th November 2005, 10:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
tanup Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5	Soo, Thanks for your input. I love your lotion/tanning special and I would love for you to e-mail your brochure to me villagesun@bellsouth.net

16th November 2005, 06:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
MoHo50 All Star Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 90	Soo - I'm also interested in your broucher howellfj50@hotmail.com Thx

16th November 2005, 07:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
RTD Veteran Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 328	I always get a laugh when lotion producers say that they have a diversion dept. I just did a goggle search and the first 4 sites are linked below also included is an ebay page. Are these depts having a hard time finding these site and that is why they need our help in finding them??? http://www.bestpricetanning.com/cgi-...age=index.html http://www.internettanning.com/cgi-b...age=index.html http://www.lotionsource.com/designer_skin_lotion_1.html http://www.tanshop.com/product-manuf...igner+Skin%99/ http://search.ebay.com/Designer-Skin...fsooZ1QQfsopZ3 This is just the first 4. Goggle list 1,100,000 sites under Designer Skin Lotion. How do they have the time to even respond to an email? All kidding aside. This is not going to go away. Salon owners are involved. A simple net page, almost no overhead and you can supplement your salon income. Hard to control, nearly impossible to stop. Who is going to say that a salon isn't selling dozens of lotions monthly? As much as the lotion companies can do, there is far too many sources that they cannot shut off. (well, not and stay in business anyway) IMHO, I agree with Alan. This is how it is and it will become more wide spread as time goes on.

17th November 2005, 12:27 AM	#10 (permalink)
HBT6872 Hall of Famer Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,645	Designer Skin needs to merge with someone. Everyone has copied them and they do not have the funds for rebate programs. Someone needs to buy them.

18th November 2005, 03:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
Alan @ TanToday Checks and Balances Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,158	http://stores.ebay.com/lotions2go This seller had to go. Close to 4,000 feedbacks. Do the math! At least 4000 bottles of lotions in the hands of customers, not salon owners. WOW! __________________ Alan "America is too great for small dreams" - Ronald Reagan

19th November 2005, 02:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
SunShop SunShop Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 118	I have the same problem with my salon and I probably always will. Even some of my good customers who I also consider to be friends will come in with a bottle of Bombshell and ask me what I would sell them a bottle of it for. Depending on how good of a customer they have been and if we have any promotions going at the time concerning lotions, I priced it to him with a substantial discount and he just laughed at me. He told me he bought it off the internet for less that I can buy it out of the 4-Seasons catalog. All I could say is that I cannot knock you for saving that kind of money if you are sure you are getting what you pay for. I explained to him that selling lotions is how I pay my rent, insurance, upgrade equipment, etc...He came back within two weeks and spent $65.00 with me on another kind of lotion. Some customers understand and some think we are out to rip them off. I tell them to go to their favorite dress boutique and tell the owner that you like the beautifull dress that they have in the window but they want it for what the owner paid for it. For some reason, they would not do that to the boutique owner, but they would do it to me...go figure.

30th November 2005, 01:04 AM	#14 (permalink)
tangenie All Star Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 113	Every site I go on I see stores complaining about Designer Skin diversion. If it hurts your store, there are products out there that aren't on ebay. I believe it is hard for a company to stop diversion if they sell to distributors, it is much more difficult to control or limit diversion than if a company sells direct. Also, purchasing direct cuts out the middle man so you can make more money. Many companies have attacked me for my views on this subject, but to me the answer is obvious. No one will ever be able to completely stop diversion, but it can be limited substantially if you control you supply chain. That is my view. I know there are stores that love Designer Skin and other companies that are on ebay. If so, stick with them. But, if it hurts you, you can make a change. __________________ It's a great day to be Alive! Tim Schinker - President THREEWISHESTAN.COM

30th November 2005, 10:28 AM	#15 (permalink)
SunShop SunShop Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 118	I sent this site to Chuck @ 4-Seasons Chuck always told me that when I come upon sites such as these to please forward them to him and he will see what he can do about checking out this site's suppliers.

30th November 2005, 11:19 AM	#16 (permalink)
tangenie All Star Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 113	Haven't you guys been complaining about diversion for years? And if the new product has already been diverted, what can they possibly do? __________________ It's a great day to be Alive! Tim Schinker - President THREEWISHESTAN.COM

30th November 2005, 12:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
SunShop SunShop Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 118	The worst thing to do is "NOTHING"! It may not help any at all but I will at least make an effort to stop his suppliers.A few years ago I had a problem with a huge flea market which would set up in a town nearby. There was always a vendor who would have a large selection of indoor tanning lotions(priced at salon cost) including several that I carry. I contacted 4-Seasons and they sent someone to check it out and buy one so they could get the barcode and find out where these people were getting their lotion. I do not know if that was the reason but after a couple of visits by 4-Seasons, which included having the persons picture taken, they stopped showing up. You have to do something to try and stop it or stand by and let your lotion sales suffer along with your bottom line.

1st December 2005, 02:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
gottatanfl Hall of Famer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,605	I dont have that much problem with online lotions coming in my store. I try to keep lotions reasonable and if they can get it cheaper at some online store, I offer the same price if I can verify the price and include shipping. Have you seen the shipping cost these companies charge?? Its gonna be impossible to stop diversion overnight but we can make our customers aware that the product could be tampered with, out dated, used or any number of things. That buying from us is safer, faster and more convienent and can with added postage and handling fees sometimes save them money.

1st December 2005, 02:56 PM	#19 (permalink)
tangenie All Star Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 113	After research my attorney discovered the 3 websites I am on are all owned by the same company. We have a total of 1 diverter and soon it will be none. What other lotion company can say that? __________________ It's a great day to be Alive! Tim Schinker - President THREEWISHESTAN.COM

1st December 2005, 03:02 PM	#20 (permalink)
gottatanfl Hall of Famer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,605	Point is your out there. How did it happen and how long til it happens again. Dont be bragging unless you can say Never been, Never will be after all didnt I see you just celebrated 1 month? In one month your on three sites.

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