Do you want to open a salon?

[enuf]

mlopat, if there are 8 of those franchises in a 10 mile radius why would you want to open another HT.

[Glowtanning530]

Betcha HT said it would be a "wonderful" idea

[Island Cove]

...

[thelightguy]

Thanks Island Cove,
Location, location, location....

[sunsally]

Sort of.

The bottom line is - there is NOWHERE that is "if you build it, they will come". I know of HORRIBLE locations that ROCK. And I know of GREAT locations that go belly up!

The answer is - there is no one "bullet proof" thing you can do to ENSURE success. A good location helps - sure. But at what price? What if you have a so-so location - but put the $$ you save on rent back into advertising? Or compensation to retain a higher quality of staff?


There are rent rates that just DON'T WORK for tanning! I hear people say "but that is the going rate here". Fine - then "here" should not have a tanning salon! You have to be realistic about what a salon can and will do. And just because it is next to a grocery store, or next to a gym, or in an upperclass neighborhood, or on a busy street -- none of those mean anything by themselves, yet people throw those out as their "proof" of a great location everyday!


Great location, ultimately, is one that is NOT already saturated, where the rent is a good "value" for what you will receive, where the size is right for the mix of equipment you feel you need to be successful, etc etc.


It is NOT a simple answer. If it was - everyone would be successful.

[thelightguy]

Originally Posted by sunsally

Great location, ultimately, is one that is NOT already saturated, where the rent is a good "value" for what you will receive, where the size is right for the mix of equipment you feel you need to be successful, etc etc.

It is NOT a simple answer. If it was - everyone would be successful.

Thanks for the time you put into that answer. So here is the follow up question. If the area is saturated with crappy salons that haven't added a bed for 5 years and most of the beds are at least 8 yrs old. Level 3 bed is the best in the area. None are ran well and the area is growing by 11% year. The top three salons with 11 beds put 150-200 people through the door during busy season and 50-75 during slow season. Is it still saturated and not a good place to open?

[mlopatnikov]

Originally Posted by enuf

mlopat, if there are 8 of those franchises in a 10 mile radius why would you want to open another HT.

within 5 mile radius I have about 500,000 people. I believe that would be sufficient even for 15 salons. Do you agree?

But, I do see how everyone is feeling about HT or pretty much any other franchise. Looks like the best route is to do it yourself.

Next Wednesday I am giong to "Open Doors" by HT in south jersey to see what they are offering. I am 100% sure it will be pure sales pitch, still could be interesting.
I am thinking of printing couple of those posting by unhappy HT owners and the letters they've been getting from HT corp. and see what HT sales team and management has to say about that . yeap could be very, very interesting

[sunsally]

Originally Posted by thelightguy

Thanks for the time you put into that answer. So here is the follow up question. If the area is saturated with crappy salons that haven't added a bed for 5 years and most of the beds are at least 8 yrs old. Level 3 bed is the best in the area. None are ran well and the area is growing by 11% year. The top three salons with 11 beds put 150-200 people through the door during busy season and 50-75 during slow season. Is it still saturated and not a good place to open?

Since the first salon was opened, every new salon to come along since did it because "the existing salons are crappy and poorly run". If I had a nickel for every salon that was "dirty, has old beds, aren't friendly" -- according to PROSPECTIVE salon owners - yet is rocking - I would be richer than from being a salon owner myself! .

The bottom line is this. There are very few areas left where there are NO salons people can use. And the "glory days" of it being the "cool thing to do" are not here currently. So in all probability -- all the "prospective tanners" are already tanning - at those other salons. Building your salon won't "create" new customers.

And despite what it looks like to US - some of them are there because they LIKE them. They feel comfortable, they like the pricing/value they get, they are convenient, the staff "knows" them.

Additionally - customers don't check the labels to know how old the beds are and they haven't necessarily been a customer since day one to know if/when units have been added along the way. They just know they are (or are not) comfortable.

SO - If you can make a good living off of what the current top 3 salons are doing now - divided by 4 instead of 3 - then maybe it is a good location. That means you feel you can get 1/3 of each of their clientele to take the time and energy from going where they are NOW - and switch to you. And of course - this assumes those CURRENT salons aren't going to make ANY changes once you enter the market -- they won't do a quick spruce up, add a new bed or two, get more aggressive on pricing.

Remember - they have ACTIVE customers and a significant data base. You will have - nothing. They probably have most if not all of their "start up debt" paid off - you will start in the hole. They have name recognition, location awareness, reputation -- you will have to build all of that through time and money.

I can't tell you if it is a good location or not. But these are the things you should think about and factor into your calculations to determine if this is a good "investment" - or a neat "idea" that may turn out very costly. Know that BEFORE you commit.

[Tanning Queen]

How many of those 500,000 are white, women, between the ages of 24-35?

I dont understand the mentality of going into a place that is REALLY saturdated. All it does is reduce the amount of income potential for everyone.

Just cuz you will have a new fancy salon doesnt mean that people will just switch to you. What is the quality of the salons you are coing to compete with? IF they have nice salons, many people wont leave. Unless you have the same thing for less, then maybe. But then y ou are setting yourself up for price wars, which NO ONE wins.

If yiou have $100k to blow, open a Rita's waterice or something that people just dont have issues with. Make water ice or pretzels and feed the masses. People dont have too many issues with food. I dont see an entire industry out to shut them down either. LOL!

[Tanning Queen]

OK, Anne said it more eloquently than I did. But same idea.

[sunsally]

Originally Posted by mlopatnikov

within 5 mile radius I have about 500,000 people. I believe that would be sufficient even for 15 salons. Do you agree?

But, I do see how everyone is feeling about HT or pretty much any other franchise. Looks like the best route is to do it yourself.

Next Wednesday I am giong to "Open Doors" by HT in south jersey to see what they are offering. I am 100% sure it will be pure sales pitch, still could be interesting.
I am thinking of printing couple of those posting by unhappy HT owners and the letters they've been getting from HT corp. and see what HT sales team and management has to say about that . yeap could be very, very interesting

And for what it is worth.........

I am not personally particularly familiar with Hollywood Tans other than what I read on the chat sites. They are not a significant presence in my market. That said, Hollywood Tans was run by a family since it opened. Less than a year ago, it sold to a "Corporation" and is now run by a group with significant retail and franchising experience. Not tanning necessarily, but I think we all know anyone can "learn" tanning. I have met the new CEO, and I can say, I am impressed. He has been at the past two ITA Open Board meetings along with myself, is engaged, seems smart and very determined to "jump in" to this industry with both feet

Will that make it better? Worse? I have no idea. But it is "different" at the very least.

I would probably go to the meeting to hear what they have to say. They DO have a major market presence on the East Coast which can make a difference when it comes to advertising, name recognition etc - if the overall salon approach and plan makes sense.

[SandiGirl]

Originally Posted by thelightguy

Thanks for the time you put into that answer. So here is the follow up question. If the area is saturated with crappy salons that haven't added a bed for 5 years and most of the beds are at least 8 yrs old. Level 3 bed is the best in the area. None are ran well and the area is growing by 11% year. The top three salons with 11 beds put 150-200 people through the door during busy season and 50-75 during slow season. Is it still saturated and not a good place to open?

Where did you get all the info on the other salon's sales, amount of customers they see etc.?

[thelightguy]

I got the info about the salons from sitting outside and counting at each location on different days. Tanning in the salons. Being patient and waiting for that "one" bed in the lobby and watching how many people get turned away and last, but not least. One salon was for sale and after looking at the salon closely and seeig the financials and lease agreement, I wasn't interested. I also sollicited one salon in the best location in the city and am still deciding whether to make an offer based on getting more info. I would much rather purchase an existing, even though that means a complete gutting and strating over of any salon in my area.
If the only place to open a salon was a non-saturated area than how are all these NEW Beautiful salons opening up in saturated areas and ripping the competition apart. If you look at Desert Sun, for example, they opened in saturated areas and WOW!!ED the masses and took the competition by storm. Opening within a block of major competition. They went from one location to 65 in eight years. By moving in with a better tanning experience.

[sunsally]

Originally Posted by thelightguy

If the only place to open a salon was a non-saturated area than how are all these NEW Beautiful salons opening up in saturated areas and ripping the competition apart. If you look at Desert Sun, for example, they opened in saturated areas and WOW!!ED the masses and took the competition by storm. Opening within a block of major competition. They went from one location to 65 in eight years. By moving in with a better tanning experience.

EVERY salon owner on this board and that has EVER opened looked at the competition and thought "I will move in, offer a better tanning experience - and probably have 65 locations in 8 years". VERY few do. Part of that is a function of when you START your growth. 10 years ago was HIGH TIMES for this industry. Last 4 years have been tough. If you started a chain, or even a store, 10 years ago, everything is paid off, you have an established client base, etc etc. If you started it 4 years ago - it's probably been more of a struggle. If you try to start it this year - hard to say. Part of that is capital. Are you scraping it together to open one? Or do you have a huge amount of personal capital accessible - if you need it? Are you an Operating genius? Sales & Marketing guru? Motivator of others? Great negotiator? Innovator? Do you have experience in Retail? The BEST are all those things or have them on their team. My experience is most/many that come to these boards come to confirm what they want to hear. They have already made up their minds. Sometimes that works out, sometimes you read people saying "I wished I had listened before I opened......." Your area might be ripe for another salon. You might be like your perception of Desert Sun - go right across the street from a competitor, WOW THE MASSES and be wildly successful. Put together a business and financial plan that you think will make that happen. Make sure you have enough capital to make that happen, including significant advertising, cash reserves to cover initial shortfalls, etc. Then - do projections based on NOT having that success you anticipate, at least not for the first several years. As long as you are comfortable with both, and more confident that your skills will lean you toward the former, go for it!

[sunsally]

Sorry - For some reason, my posts are no longer formatting ^^^. They aren't taking paragraphs (even when I went back in to enter them), can't add smilies or bold/underline, etc. Also - a lot of the banners aren't showing. If anyone has any ideas why - PM or call me. I use Foxfire if that makes a difference. I actually did a disk clean up and re-started the computer last night in an effort to get it to behave.

[Hankvan]

best post ever brian

[thelightguy]

I come to this site to gather information. To get opinions.
All of which I consider seriously. I expect an initial investment of around $350,000 cash and have an additional $100k to make sure this venture can get over the hump. I take that seriously.

I do agree with the need to be honest with peoples true understanding of the investment, skill set, and business knowledge required to be successful to go into a specific market. Whether to take a piece of the pie or to put others out of business and take a larger piece of the pie.

To be honest and Frank, I get a little frustrated on this and the other site with the underlining message of frustration with competition coming into the market coming from the current salon owners.

Some, like queeny being a great example, sound like they are sick of competition moving in and thinning profits. She is consistently negative and I can see why. She is no longer in tanning. Yes, I know, it is because of family issues. If it had to close than it was probably a flailing business. She makes me believe I am correct to believe that most salon owners are not willing to or not able to run a profitable business. To reinvest and reinvest and reinvest. She makes me believe I am right to get into this business.

The high, high majority of businesses fail in any industry. Those that are successful do the correct research and have a Skill set to run a business correctly. I am not totally sold on this business until I sign the final lease agreement. I am always doing research. But, if I sign that contract... I will succeed and I don't give a crap if I put every other tanning salon out of business. I know that won't happen, but if they can't keep thier clients then they aren't doing a good enough job taking care of thier needs. I would not be in thier back yard if they were doing a good job.

I believe the sustainability of this business depends on smart business people coming in and thinning the croud. There are too many TANNERS owning tanning businesses. Tanners are happy to see these big companies come in and change the industry. They are forcing salons to take care of the tanner better. If 50% of salons go out of business because they can't keep up that is the best thing that can happen. But, for the market to be saturated with $hitty salons is bad for the industry and bad for tanners.

Change or get the F*#k out of the way.

Sorry for rambling and being blunt, you may all be correct and I will waste almost $500,000. Time will tell.

[Tanning Queen]

Ok, well a big F*CK YOU to you. My salon was doing QUITE well when my Mother became ill. If you know anything about me is that I took a failing salon for $10k that was making $73k a year gross and turned it into a salon that was making well over $180k a year. And it was a small salon with mostly stand up units.

I had to close because my mother went from monthly treatments to weekly in a matter of a month. So I closed at the end of 2005. There wasnt time to hire and train somoene to take my place. I had not expected her to become so ill so fast, nor had I known I was the one that would need to take care of her. It was either close when she had treatment, and every time after when she was too sick to stand up, or just liquidate the salon and focus on her 100%. SHe was more important to me than the nice wad of cash I cleared each year.

In jan we had weekly treatments, by April she was going blind but we cured that with radiation. By May she couldn't walk because the cancer had spread to her spinal cord fluid and she had to be hospitalized. By June she was released for home care, still couldnt walk so I had to bathe her and clean her and change her and make her food and give her meds. By July they said they cured the cancer in the spinal fluid but couldnt get to the spot on the liver in time. She had a week to live. SHe was gone 7 days later almost to the minute. I was there every second of that time and wouldnt change it for the world. She was my best friend and the light of my life and she is gone. I would give ANYTHING to have her back. Even my "flailing" salon.

[thelightguy]

I'm sorry for your loss, really.
I watched my father die af cancer at my house. He went from a strong man to a man fighting cancer. He lost. I lost. I understand your loss.

I stand behind my post. If your salon was making $170k than why the hell were you the only person able to run it. The definition of a successful business person is one that can run in the absence of the owner. You have to be able to duplicate yourself or you are just another employee. Maybe a well paid employee, but an employee. That tells me alot about what kind of a business you ran. Just my opinion from the outside, but I can definitly see by your posts you are jaded by new competition.

[thelightguy]