Just a speech?

[Tanning Queen]

Thank you Kathe. You seem to understand what I was going thru. Thank you.

And again, where is the PERSONAL attacks from me?

[FIT]

The topic is Obama and his relationship with his preacher. When you sit under a preacher for 20 years and tell the world that he is your spiritual mentor and that he guides you then that preacher comes out and speaks hate against the very country that you want to be president of that is a concern, hopefully for all Americans

Many American leaders and preachers have done the same thing - I don't know their reasoning but I believe it's for shock value. Jerry Falwell has done the same thing and we all know about his relationship with Ronald Reagan.

It's not fair to judge a book by it's cover. I spent a great deal of time last night watching his sermon's. Some are indeed controversial but in their entirety (very rarely shown) you can see what he is trying to do. He is challlenging our leadership to do more for the people he loves.

He also has some great sermons about love and respect. He's been leading force behind so many worth causes I couldn't begin to list them all.

The whold world is taking a snap shot of this guy and then even worse they are assuming Barack's beliefs mirror his. Have you ever looked at Barack's record? He could've made millions with his law degree and instead he chose to work in his community and help people find jobs. His record is impeccable and he's probably more intelligent than all of us in here combined. Do you really think he would align himself with a guy who's anti-American?

[Tanning Queen]

This guy is not only anti- American but anti-semetic. If he was white, he would be part of the Klan.

[Brian Oshman]

Susan,you don't owe this jacka$$ any explanation for your decision. You made the right one. It is funny how he pulled up such a quote from you about his business needs when he actually found out and replied later on that you and the rest of us were right and he needs to upgrade. He lives in a bubble and hears absolutely nothing anyone says to him. He likes to learn the hard way.

...and dey ain't puttin' no brotha in da White House.

[FIT]

It is funny how he pulled up such a quote from you about his business needs when he actually found out and replied later on that you and the rest of us were right and he needs to upgrade. He lives in a bubble and hears absolutely nothing anyone says to him

Wrong dude. No need to upgrade here. Sorry if I've borrowed your head Jacka$$ title for a thread. You can have it back.

[FIT]

Truth be told I spent $11,000 on a 5 ton HVAC I didn't need. My instincts told me I had enough with my location in the center of a strip mall, almost zero direct sunlight and a cool breeze off the ocean. I should have gone with my instincts.

[Kathe]

FIT you are not getting my point.

A pastor is annointed of God to teach his flock the Word of God, which is the bible. Period. Whether it is Jerry Falwell or anyone else it doesn't matter. They are violating their responsiblity to God. They are to teach on the coming kingdom rather than the politics of today. In the Christian world it shouldn't matter really because the bible teaches that we are not of this world. What these pastors preach just does not make biblical sense.

And this pastor is also anti-semetic. How in the world can you be a bible believing pastor and be against the Jew. These are God's specially set aside people. All throughout the bible they are given special grace from Him. You cannot read the bible and hate the Jew. God specifically says I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. This preacher is taking a lot of cursing on his head and he should know better. That in itself is a cause for concern for me. Is he really a preacher or is he just using his pulpit to further his political agenda?

And you didn't address my concerns about the ties to Africa and Louis Farrakhan.

Kathe

[FIT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Christ

[FIT]

I get your point. Reverend White is wrong. Jerry Falwell was wrong. They're all wrong.

My point is everyone is defining this guy by what they've seen on YouTube. This is one part of this man - albeit a bad part. He has done a multitude of positive things in his church and in his community and that is the man Barack admires and identifies with.

My grandfather meant the world to me. He showed love and compassion to all his children and grandchildren. I watched him go from 180 to 90 pounds with pancreatic cancer and I'll never forget it. I miss him everyday and he was a GOOD MAN! But I also remember him talking about the "porch monkeys" down the street and I remember the horrified look on my mother's face everytime. It was a part of him I didn't like but he was a GOOD MAN, a loving hard-working man who raised his children to be good, hard-working men and women.

[FIT]

I haven't seen the ties to Farrakhan.

[EliteMike]

Originally Posted by FIT

My grandfather meant the world to me. He showed love and compassion to all his children and grandchildren. I watched him go from 180 to 90 pounds with pancreatic cancer and I'll never forget it. I miss him everyday and he was a GOOD MAN! But I also remember him talking about the "porch monkeys" down the street and I remember the horrified look on my mother's face everytime. It was a part of him I didn't like but he was a GOOD MAN, a loving hard-working man who raised his children to be good, hard-working men and women.

Now why didn't your mother turn out the same way if she was raised around him?

not picking, my grandfather was the same way. He didn't use the nice term of porch monkeys either.

[Kathe]

OK then. Let's say that I go to a church and 95% of the time the pastor preaches good stuff and then 5% of the time he doesn't. Now I'm not talking about wishy washy stuff that I just don't like, or doesn't appeal to me, but stuff like hatred of the Jews, hatred of America, racism, etc.

I can tell you that I, along with everyone else in my church, would immediately address this with the pastor. He would be removed from his role as pastor because he went against the bible. He would not be allowed to continue leading the flock.

Good is not determined by you and I. Our standards are flawed and we see good as a comparison to others. I am good compared to Adolf Hitler, for example. Yet compared to Mother Theresa, I'm not so good. That is why God's standards of good are to be applied by all.

I will be the first to say that I am not good. I do my best and I try on a daily basis but humanity is just not good. Anyone who puts down another person based on their race is just not worthy to be called good, no matter what else they do. Again my example of going before the judge when being sentenced for murder, but judge I've done all of these amazing and great things. Should that judge, if he is a good judge, let the person off just because of the good he accomplished? Of course not. The judge is going to throw him in jail.

We are judged on everything we do, not just the things we want to be judged on.

So I can make a judgement based on what I've read and seen that he has said. And I can say that if Obama is truly a Christian, and believes the bible, that if he even once heard this man say any of these things yet continued to follow his spiritual leadership, that I cannot condone him being president.

I hope this makes sense. I'm trying to explain myself the best I can.

Kathe

[Kathe]

Originally Posted by FIT

I haven't seen the ties to Farrakhan.

They honored him at their church. And Mr. White traveled with him to Africa.

Kathe

[Kathe]

And my grandfather, who was in the Korean war called all Asians gooks. I loved him but he will still stand before God one day and have to explain himself.

Did you know that it only takes 8 generations to take black and turn them white. Only 8. We all came from the same gene pool. Noah and his 3 sons. We are all the same.

What we do with ourselves is our responsibility, not the government.

Kathe

[FIT]

Now why didn't your mother turn out the same way if she was raised around him?

My grandmother would have put a bar of soap in her mouth.

[EliteMike]

Originally Posted by FIT

My grandmother would have put a bar of soap in her mouth.

Exactly, I don't think anyone is a product of their environment. Everyone can change and take their own path

[FIT]

I hope this makes sense. I'm trying to explain myself the best I can.

It explains it but it still represents a double standard to me. By your standards Ronald Reagan should not have been President. Jerry Falwell's movement basically got him elected.

Elections were different then. They actually debated about the issues and not what you ate for dinner the night before. A candidate had to stand on their own record - not the record of their preacher who's characterized by a two minute sound bites on YouTube.

[FIT]

Exactly, I don't think anyone is a product of their environment

No offense Mike but that doesn't even make sense.

[EliteMike]

You made the comment pages past that people turn out the way they are because of their surroundings. If you ever studied sociology, it makes perfect sense wether you beleive it or not.

I hope it's not over your head

[FIT]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us...=1&oref=slogin

"the Anti-Defamation League says it has no evidence of any anti-Semitism by Wright.^[11"