Just a speech?

[Kathe]

It's not a 2 minute sound bite on youtube. It is sermon after sermon. And if my pastor had done just 2 minutes of that in our church he wouldn't be pastor anymore. No discussion. There wouldn't even be anything to debate.

Obama said that this man is his spiritual leader and that he admitted to hearing him speak this in the church. That is fact. That alone is enough for me.

And I truly don't know anything about Jerry Falwell and Ronald Reagan. I cannot comment on that. I do know that if Ronal Reagan were running today and Jerry Falwell said the things that Mr. Wright said I would not vote for him either.

I do not like the attachments to Islam or Africa. I do not like that hatred of Jews. I do not like the racism against whites. I do not like the hatred of America. How can you be a candidate for president and sit in church and listen to a preacher who preaches the above? To me that is a problem. A big one.

Kathe

[FIT]

It's obviously way over my head. You arguing against the basic definition of culture. Are you really standing by your statement?

Exactly, I don't think anyone is a product of their environment.

[FIT]

Obama said that this man is his spiritual leader and that he admitted to hearing him speak this in the church. That is fact

He didn't Kathe.

[Kathe]

OK, I messed this up. These are from several different news websites.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ble_and_1.html

Nation of Islam Leader Louis Farrakhan, received a Lifetime Achievement Trumpeter Award at the 2007 Trumpet Gala at Trinity United Church of Christ, presented by Pastor Wright.

As for Israel, “The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for over 40 years now,” Wright has said. “Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community and wake up Americans concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism.”

There is plenty out there is you spend time looking for it. Problem is that the church has taken off most of the sermon downloads so you can't find them anymore.

They hate Israel, which is hating the Jews, who are God's chosen people. I just can't figure out how you can be a God loving, bible believing pastor and hate the Jews?

Kathe

[Kathe]

Originally Posted by FIT

He didn't Kathe.

Yes he did. He keeps changing his story. He is being the normal politician and going whichever way the wind blows. You do not honestly believe that this man (Obama) sat in this church for 20 years, had this guy marry him, raise his children in this church and never heard him speak like this? No way!

Kathe

[FIT]

Show me the quote Kathe. He said the exact opposite.

[FIT]

Question for you Mike:

How did you become a Steeler fan? Were you born one?

[FIT]

He sums it up pretty well here:

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Rev. Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain.

Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely -- just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice.

Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country -- a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America, a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

As such, Rev. Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems -- two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

[Kathe]

http://ztruth.typepad.com/ztruth/200...ights-fre.html

From the online Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1205...+the+Web+Today Scroll down to "The Religious Wright"

"Obama claims that Wright "has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor." In fact, as Bloomberg reports, Wright served on an advisory committee for the Obama campaign, from which he was forced to resign Friday."

I guess that makes Obama a liar.

Kathe

[Kathe]

http://newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hat.../16/80870.html

Obama was in the seats on July 22, the day this hate speech sermon was given.

Kathe

From the article....

If Obama’s claims are true that he was completely unaware that Wright’s trademark preaching style at the Trinity United Church of Christ has targeted “white” America and Israel, he would have been one of the few people in Chicago to be so uninformed. Wright’s reputation for spewing hate is well known.

[Kathe]

Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely -- just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

Absolutely not. If my pastor would have spoken like this just once I could not have sat under his spiritual leadership ever again.

Kathe

[EliteMike]

Dude, it's in the books. You are arguing that people can't change by not understanding the concept.

Humans do not act by instinct like animals do, we have the power to CHANGE and control our actions. Success stories come out of the hood, somehow people make it out of there. They are not all trapped there for life. You seem to imply that these poeple need a free ride to the top. Maybe we should hold their hand in school and at their jobs.

Minorities don't need much to make it. They have to WANT to make it.

FREE FREE FREE FREE
This is the land of the free, not the land of free give aways. Hell I probably could qualify for some government assistance programs. I chose not to, why, because I'm too proud and not lazy.

Lets change the language to spanish while we are at it since many minorities speak it in the south. Speaking of that, didn't one of the candidates say that a LONG time ago? This person wanted to change the national language.

It's just funny, my branch campus for Penn State is not in a great area, there were a LOT of blacks there. A lot of very smart ones. Some of them did not have nice homes to go to in nice areas of town. Free housing and a free college ride though for them. Back to me here, My parents couldn't afford to send me to school. No job that is legal would get me enough money to pay. I'm stuck with a major burden for the same education they got for free or at a fraction of the cost.

Do me a favor start searching to grants. The bulk of the grants are for minorities. Half of the grants don't even require great QPA from HS.

I don't make sense, half of this thread doesn't make sense. You bitch that no one is giving him a fair run because no one knows about him. Yet you act like you know something that others don't.

I hate politics, it seems to bring out the worst in some people. Everyone thinks they are right yet there just is no right answer.

[EliteMike]

No, I wasn't born a steelers fan. I became one late in age. I'm also a Dallas fan, if that's your idea of proving/disproving my point. Poor one at that.

How bout this one. All my friends did drugs and drank. I was around them all the time. Most of my friends didn't even go to college, others didn't graduate. I was around them all the time, they were my environment. I should have fell into the same bracket as them.

[FIT]

According to Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ahtp0fHnuxpc

Wright, Obama's longtime spiritual adviser and pastor of his Chicago church, was off Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee as of last night, said campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor, who didn't elaborate

This is a perfect example of how erroneous information is spread. The article you are quoting is a "Best of the Web" article. It's NOT an article written by a reporter of the Wall Street Journal. The author who clearly had access to the committee Wright served on instead reported him to be on "an advisory committee" to make Obama out to be a liar. He even referenced Bloomberg which wrote the paragraph I posted above.

And you fell for it Kathe.

[FIT]

I became one late in age

LOL - aren't you like 24?

So now you will tell me growing up in Pittsburgh didn't influence your decision to become a Pittsburgh fan, right?

[FIT]

You are arguing that people can't change by not understanding the concept

NO I'M NOT!

[EliteMike]

I'm 26 soon to be 27, as I said above this is a poor poor way to even argue the point. With sports, especially the NFL, you are almost forced to watch your local team IF you want to watch. I didn't get into football until I was really out of highschool. I didn't fall into the norm that everyone on Sunday has to watch football

[FIT]

You bitch that no one is giving him a fair run because no one knows about him. Yet you act like you know something that others don't.

I'm not doing that either. I started this thread because I read Obama's speech and thought it was the most honest summarization of race I've ever heard. He addressed the discrimination of minorites - and he discussed the resentment of white people EXACTLY like you Mike.

I don't know if you actually read it or not but his theme was that both sides HAD MERIT and wishing away both sides issues wouldn't change things. He was agreeing with you Mike - he sees where you're coming from and he asks minorities to see it too.

He also asks you to open your mind to the effect racism has had on the current situation. It didn't end when Lincoln put his name on the Emancipation Proclamation. It's evolved and is better but it still exists.

If you knew anything about him you would also know that he was a lead sponsor on welfare reform - it's only mission was to get people off the state's payroll.

[FIT]

With sports, especially the NFL, you are almost forced to watch your local team IF you want to watch

You're making my point for me. Thank you.

[EliteMike]

I'm not going to lie, I read parts of it and only parts. Damn thing was long.

And now I have to do what I've been putting off for the past 2 weeks