Just a speech?

[Tanning Queen]

I am nice most of the time. But dont tell lightguy that. He thinks I am a bitch.

[Brian Oshman]

The difference between you and me is that I don't look at universal health care the same way you do. I don't see it as all the rich people providing health care for all the poor people. I see an opportunity for everyone to save because you will have more people paying into the system.

The problem with that is that the people that don't pay taxes now won't pay later. There are plenty that skate taxes and plenty of illegals that would get the health care for free without any contribution.

The ones that do will just be carying the dead beats just as it always has been done, the only difference is that it will be mandatory, which is not fair or constitutional. It removes the choice.

[EliteMike]

FIT, it's all in good fun, I'd buy you a drink if you were close. nothing personal

[JustTans23]

Originally Posted by FIT

Insult me all you want but I have a brain. You have the comprehension skills that rival my 6 year old. Oh and while I'm at it I've been holding this in for a long time ....

NOONE closes up a business with an income of $170,000 a year under any circumstances and it's really sad to use your mother as an excuse for your failures.

Even if you couldn't find someone to run your "thriving" business it could have been sold. Give us a break!

How dare you even bring that issue into it? You have no clue what she was going through. She was supposed to wait months and months and then train a new owner for even longer while her mom was sick. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BRING THAT UP.

back to reading...that just made me angry

[JustTans23]

Originally Posted by FIT

The whold world is taking a snap shot of this guy and then even worse they are assuming Barack's beliefs mirror his. Have you ever looked at Barack's record? He could've made millions with his law degree and instead he chose to work in his community and help people find jobs. His record is impeccable and he's probably more intelligent than all of us in here combined. Do you really think he would align himself with a guy who's anti-American?

Isn't the whole reason you go to church because you believe what the leader of the church is preaching?

[JustTans23]

Originally Posted by FIT

He also asks you to open your mind to the effect racism has had on the current situation. It didn't end when Lincoln put his name on the Emancipation Proclamation. It's evolved and is better but it still exists.

.

It wouldn't exist anymore if people didn't stop thinking that minorities didn't have the same "tools" or "opportunities" as the majority.

I remember watching Oprah one time, there was an older white male on that had ruined his life from drugs and all that. Oprah said "you were a white man growing up in America, how could you let this happen to you?" I shut the TV off and haven't watched Oprah since. She was basically saying that white people have it all and don't have to try. And speaking of Oprah, look at where she came from and where she is now. And she uses this fame to advocate, advance, and promote racism, instead of trying to stop it. And guess what, she is an Obama supporter...I wonder why.

It is insulting to blacks and whites alike to say that color is what effects success. It's insulting to the whites because its like saying all our hard work was for nothing, it doesn't matter, because we would of been successful anyway. Its definitly insulting to the blacks and other minorities because its saying that no matter how hard they work they won't be successful. Just because they are a minority. Can't you see how wrong that argument is?

[JustTans23]

YAY! I'm all caught up! I hate insomnia...

[FIT]

I respect your views JustTans but I think you are like alot of Americans. You're in denial about discrimination because you can point out pockets of opportunity molded for the black community.

You point to individuals who have escaped their circumstances to become great leaders, or business people or talk show hosts. Well not every black person is going to achieve greatness, just like not every white person can be Bill Gates.

Discrimination is real and it's not just relegated to the black community. I watched Outside The Lines this morning. It talked about universities discriminating against lesbian coaches. More and more universities are hiring men to coach their women's college basketball teams because parents are sensitive to sending their daughters to play for a lesbian coach. That's classic discrimination. It's real.

I'm sure very few people have read the speech that this thread is about. Yes it's very long but you're missing out if you don't read it. Below is the part of the speech that was particularly moving for me. Maybe I can get people to at least read that.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race.

Their experience is the immigrant experience -- as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor.

They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense.

So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African-American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation.

Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle-class squeeze -- a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many.

And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns -- this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

This is where we are right now. It's a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naive as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy -- particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

But I have asserted a firm conviction -- a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people -- that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life.

But it also means binding our particular grievances -- for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs -- to the larger aspirations of all Americans, the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family.

And it means taking full responsibility for own lives -- by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

So many of the things I've heard from the Tan Today community are exactly the things Barack talks about in his speech. I didn't start this thread to validate the speech but it sure has reinforced my original thought - this speech came from his heart. These are his beliefs. These things are real AND until we can all come together and at least understand where we're at we will never escape it.

That means as many of you have said, "Everyone has to take responsibility for their own lives. Everyone can overcome their circumstances and achieve greatness. There are opportunities for minorities if they just take advantage of it!". I agree with all that.

But that's really the easy way out for us as the majority. It's easy to use people like Oprah Winfrey and say, "See anyone can be her". It makes us feel better about what we've accomplished. Nobody gave it to us! We earned it!

The hard thing to do is acknowledge that discrimination still exists and more importantly the history of racism has laid the foundation for the disparities in the African American community today. The inequalites that shaped the African American community have been passed down from generation to generation. And that's hard because it does create a sense of guilt. It diminishes our accomplishments in some way.

Not everyone will agree with me and I understand that but I'm not some ignorant naive person with a guilt complex. I've seen it growing up. I see it today. There's a division, an animosity that lies under the surface of both races and it's created by the feelings that have been passed down from generation to generation.

I'd like to see that change in my lifetime.

[Kathe]

Originally Posted by JustTans23

Isn't the whole reason you go to church because you believe what the leader of the church is preaching?

YES

Kathe

[Brian Oshman]

Religion has no place in Government.

[FIT]

One last thing ....

Many have "insinuated" that people like my Mother who don't grow up to be like her father is proof that the environment you live in isn't that big a factor in how you grow.

That is why great leadership is so important and why I think Barack Obama would help this country evolve. As I listen to him and see the nation through his eyes it makes me realize how important it is that I use his message as I raise my own children.

I think that's why mother raised me the way she did. Apparently, there was someone in her life that made her feel the same way. I'm not sure who that was but I'm gonna ask the next time I talk to her. More importantly, it emphasizes the need to have the right people leading our country. Because just like me parents all over our country are "tuning in". They are looking at our leaders for guidance.

It's "evolution" to a better place, an place where opportunity is there for us all - regardless of race or background.

With that said this will probably be my last post. I've summed up my feelings as best I can and see no need to go further. I recognize that most in here will disagree but that's ok.

Last but not least I like to apologize to Tanning Queen. My comments about your salon and your situation were uncalled for. I've lost a parent and it's very painful. If you knew me you would know I'm not that kind of person. Not sure why I let myself go down that road but I'm sorry.

[Kathe]

Originally Posted by Brian Oshman

Religion has no place in Government.

I agree. However, Obama has said that this preacher is his mentor and spiritual leader. This is cause for concern when this preacher preaches hate against America, hate against whites and hate against Jews. This is the root of my problem with Obama. He has got to believe the same if he is going to sit under this man's teaching for 20 years. Do we really want someone in the white house like this? I say no.

Kathe

[Kathe]

Nice apology FIT. It was nice to see. Kathe

[Tanning Queen]

Apology accepted. Thank you. And I am sorry to hear of your loss too. Really sucks to lose someone you love so much.

[FIT]

Originally Posted by Digita1B0B

It's called survival of the FITtest. It sucks if you come from a long line of folks teaching you poor survival skills... really, it does. But it doesn't mean that society owes you better. Take it up with your mom or grandmom or whoever passed on such poor life skills.

By the way, Tanning Queen, since your Cherokee.... can you hook me up with some peyote???

Bob

Missed that one Bob. Brian had me back over here. I think society does owe you better if society created your environment - which is how it happened.

[Brian Oshman]

Originally Posted by FIT

Missed that one Bob. Brian had me back over here. I think society does owe you better if society created your environment - which is how it happened.

Society owes you nothing. Society may have created the environment but you have the choice to stay immersed in it or leave.

[FIT]

Originally Posted by Brian Oshman

Society owes you nothing. Society may have created the environment but you have the choice to stay immersed in it or leave.

Choice yes. But the opportunity for some is miniscule.

[Brian Oshman]

That is their problem, not the communities.

[stan@sunsys]

Originally Posted by FIT

Choice yes. But the opportunity for some is miniscule.

Then it's up to "society" to increase the opportunites, NOT create dependancies.

[Kathe]

Hand outs are never the answer. Some of the most successful people are the ones with the least advantages in the beginning. But they made it happen anyway. It takes hard work and lots of it. That is where I see the problem lies. Most people want a hand out without any work attached. Or as little as they can get by with. I also believe that attitude plays a great part in whether you make it or not. We don't teach about important things like attitude in school. Attitude can make or break an opportunity.