Just a speech?

[FIT]

No Al. He said the minister said other things in the past that he didn't agree with. He said he never heard him make the anti-American comments he made recently and he stands by that.

[Tanning Queen]

What about the anti-white comments?

[FIT]

She filed for hardship or some thign like that and her bill came out to $41

1. You have to be in a position to file for hardship. Bill Gates can't roll out on a hospital bill and just say sorry - don't have the dough.

2. Brownsuze was very clear that she didn't want to get stuck with someone else's healthcare bill. Unless she's a hypocrit then hardship would not be an option cause someone else is surely paying for your friends care.

I didnt have health insurance for almost 10 years. It was cheaper for me to not have it since I never got sick.

For you the gamble clearly paid off. One drunk driver crossing the center line and hitting you head on would have made your gamble a really bad decision. Do you ski? Play sports? How much would you have saved if you needed knee surgery?

[FIT]

What about the anti-white comments?

You'll have to ask him.

[stan@sunsys]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. That's almost plausible. Btw, "recently" was fall of 2001.

I wonder what his grandmother, who is a "typical white woman", thinks about his deniability of his close spiritual advisor's racism, and how Wright's long held and well known views of typical white people has rubbed off on Obama.

[Tanning Queen]

Fit, dont give me that line "ask him". You are the one saying that he never was there for the comments. Ok, so maybe he wasnt there for the GD America sermon, but he is a blantant racist but it is ok cuz he is black. I get it.

To respond to the medical comments, NO, I dont ski but I ride motorcycles. I drive a car. Everyday I do what normal people do and it hasnt been a problem. But if someone runs me down? Guess who pays for that? THEY DO. And if they dont have the insurance or money, I would still get treatment. Now, how does making it MANDATORY to have insurance going to change anything as far as care? Look at Canada and you will see what will happen. THey are coming HERE to get treatment because the wait lists and red tape is crazy. Who is going to pay for this mandatory health care? TAXPAYERS. Why do I want to pay more than I do already now for someone elses problems?

Here is what I want. I want to have control of my own Soc Sec money to invest MYSELF. I can do a better job and grow it faster than the govt. I want EXCELLENT healthcare and I dont mind paying for it. I want LOW taxes. I dont want to have to pay more money just because I make lots of money. Why should I be punished because I am good at making money and work hard to get it? I want welfare to go away. I want people on welfare to go get a job. Stop having kids so you can avoid working. Stop being picky on what job you take. If the illegal is willing to scrub floors for min wage, so should you. If you did the jobs they are willing to do, they would have no choice but to go home.

[solarmeter®]

Here is what I want. I want to have control of my own Soc Sec money to invest MYSELF. I can do a better job and grow it faster than the govt. I want EXCELLENT healthcare and I dont mind paying for it. I want LOW taxes. I dont want to have to pay more money just because I make lots of money. Why should I be punished because I am good at making money and work hard to get it? I want welfare to go away. I want people on welfare to go get a job. Stop having kids so you can avoid working. Stop being picky on what job you take. If the illegal is willing to scrub floors for min wage, so should you. If you did the jobs they are willing to do, they would have no choice but to go home.

Tanning Queen is my new hero. Bravo!

Elite Mike is being a casper-milk-toast. So are ALL moderates.

FIT I will never agree with... but at least he sticks to his guns.

[FIT]

Sounds so simple Queen. But it's not.

My dad passed away when I was 11. He didn't need life insurance. He was only 30. Well when his plane went down my Mom was screwed. She had two kids to raise with only a high school diploma. She worked two jobs and took nothing from others. No welfare. No food stamps. Just hard work.

She deserves alot of credit but she had something going for her that many do not. She was white.

My mom worked in a doctor's office by day and a convenience store at night. It was a big office. There were probably 20+ medical assitants. Her night job had maybe another dozen employees.

I can remember it like it was yesterday. It was the mid-80's and she made enough to keep us in a good home in a good neighborhood. What really stands out in my mind was that there wasn't one non-white employee at either location.

What jobs would have been available to her if she were Black or Hispanic or even Asian? Not the jobs she had. We wouldn't have grown up in the great surroundings we did. We wouldn't have gone to the great school we did. We wouldn't have had the same opportunity.

You want them to get a job. Well some WANT to work. And yes other's don't. It's just not as simple as you make it out.

[TonyG]

Originally Posted by FIT

1. You have to be in a position to file for hardship. Bill Gates can't roll out on a hospital bill and just say sorry - don't have the dough.

2. Brownsuze was very clear that she didn't want to get stuck with someone else's healthcare bill. Unless she's a hypocrit then hardship would not be an option cause someone else is surely paying for your friends care.



For you the gamble clearly paid off. One drunk driver crossing the center line and hitting you head on would have made your gamble a really bad decision. Do you ski? Play sports? How much would you have saved if you needed knee surgery?

If the dems take over and put through a plan that requires all employers to provide coverage to their employees--including tanning salons and other small businesses--will you be gung ho for that?

[stan@sunsys]

Originally Posted by FIT

I can remember it like it was yesterday. It was the mid-80's and she made enough to keep us in a good home in a good neighborhood. What really stands out in my mind was that there wasn't one non-white employee at either location.

What jobs would have been available to her if she were Black or Hispanic or even Asian? Not the jobs she had. We wouldn't have grown up in the great surroundings we did. We wouldn't have gone to the great school we did. We wouldn't have had the same opportunity.

BullSh*t.

If that isn't white middle-class guilt complex, I don't know what is.

And this is the reason why many democrats vote for Obama, to make their self loathing selves feel better.

[Tanning Queen]

Oh please! There are many peole, black or white, that have come from HORRIBLE backgrounds that made something of themselves. Hell, there is one black kid I saw on the news that is a self made millionaire from the ghetto. Can't think of his name right now but I remember something like he sold rock, yes ROCKS, to his neighbors. He is something like 24 now and worth millions.

I dont want to hear about anyone not being able to make money in this country. If the immigrants can come here and build a great life, from nothing, then so can the people that are born here that are given MANY resources to do so. Under the age of 24 and need help getting a job? Join JobCorps. Tempted by the gangs in teh street to sell dope? Go to the Boys and Girls CLub, or YMCA, or police sponsored youth programs.

Maybe where your Mom worked or where you grew up wasnt very "colorful" shall we say. Who knows why there were only white people working. Maybe that is all you remember. Can't tell ya.

Look, I grew up with very little money. We went to the dented can section to get food. We got our clothes from Goodwill. We lived with my grandparents. But I got started my own business when i was 9 helping neighbors out with odd jobs and chores. NEver got an allowance. I even gave money to the household when we needed it. We never got handouts. I have never been on assistance nor have I ever taken unemployement, even when I closed my salon and have paid into the fund. Where did that money go? (would really like to know why I cant have it back!) I have worked for everything I ever got. Went to school at night while i worked 2 jobs to get ahead. Guess I was able to do all of that because I am white...

[FIT]

If that isn't white middle-class guilt complex, I don't know what is

Middle class? My mom worked for $6 an hour. We were far from middle class. I didn't get shit til I started working at McDonalds at 14. That's the only way I was getting anything I wanted.

As for guilt. I have nothing to feel guilty about. Fortunate? Yes. Because I'm white and didn't have to endure what I see so many other's endure.

I'm voting for Obama cause he gets it. I'd bet a shitload of money you didn't even take the time to read the 10 paragraphs I posted above. Why should you? You know it all.

[Kathe]

We have an HSA. We pay a low monthly rate for our family health insurance and have a $5200 deductible. Everything else that we would normally pay for health insurance goes into our HSA account which we can draw on for doctor visits, anything like that. None of us have been to the doctor in years, including the kiddo's so we were just wasting money on health insurance. This way we are covered if anything catastrophic happens but the little stuff we pay for out of the HSA account, which btw is tax free.

Kathe

[FIT]

Guess I was able to do all of that because I am white...

It was easier because you were white. All the things you mentioned before that were taught to you by your white parents or DIDNT HAVE TO ENDURE the things your counterpart's black parents had to endure.

This is generational. Your values (get a job - make your own way) were taught to you by people who did the same thing. They were taught by the generation before. It was built on the successful generations before them and so on .....

Now imagine if your grandparents were subject to the inequities the black community faced on a daily basis? Working hard just like your grandparents but getting nowhere. Barely making enough to survive, being told what drinking fountain they could drink from, what restaurant they could eat at.

Yes some fought and fought to rise above their circumstances but it took much more for them than it did your grandparents. Obviously, you think people of color have had the same opportunities you have in your lifetime. But surely you can't argue the generations before us did. And these are the people who have laid the foundation for the generations to come.

It's not been a level playing field Queen. You're in denial if you think it has been.

[FIT]

We have an HSA. We pay a low monthly rate for our family health insurance and have a $5200 deductible. Everything else that we would normally pay for health insurance goes into our HSA account which we can draw on for doctor visits, anything like that. None of us have been to the doctor in years, including the kiddo's so we were just wasting money on health insurance. This way we are covered if anything catastrophic happens but the little stuff we pay for out of the HSA account, which btw is tax free.

Kathe

Sounds like the best of both worlds.

[Kathe]

Originally Posted by Tanning Queen

Here is what I want. I want to have control of my own Soc Sec money to invest MYSELF. I can do a better job and grow it faster than the govt. I want EXCELLENT healthcare and I dont mind paying for it. I want LOW taxes. I dont want to have to pay more money just because I make lots of money. Why should I be punished because I am good at making money and work hard to get it? I want welfare to go away. I want people on welfare to go get a job. Stop having kids so you can avoid working. Stop being picky on what job you take. If the illegal is willing to scrub floors for min wage, so should you. If you did the jobs they are willing to do, they would have no choice but to go home.

100% agree! I worked a minimum wage job for a long time and now I own my own business. I worked my buns off to get ahead. If I can do it, anyone can. Not one person gave me a handout and I didn't ask for one and wouldn't have wanted one. I don't want to work hard in my business to pay for someone else's medical care or welfare so they can sit around and do nothing. That totally irritates me.

And as for this "pastor" I have a hard time even saying that word and applying it to him. The bible says you can't know a man's heart but Jesus said you will know them by their fruit. Good fruit cannot come from a bad tree and bad fruit cannot come from a good tree. The way I see it this man is spewing bad fruit so he must be a bad tree. The fact that the man who wants to be our president sat under the teaching of this bad tree for 20 years is horrifying to me as a Christian. I would have run from this church as fast I could have and that he stayed and raised his children up in this church is very telling to me. You do not stay in a church where you and the pastor disagree on such things.

And the fact that this "pastor" is using his pulpit, not to talk about Jesus and His coming kingdom, but for racist remarks, hatred of this country and political garbage is just plain wrong. I would hate to be in his shoes on judgement day. As well as anyone who is sitting in those seats, listening the garbage and doing nothing about it. This is not a Christian message in any way, shape or form.

Ugh

Kathe

[solarmeter®]

Fit: Your mother did a great job (except maybe on you - just kidding). She must blink fast. That is the sign of a motivated self-starter... who will always find a way to get the job done.

Slackers (laid back) are the opposite: they blink slowly. They often wear oversized pants and shirts... typically sitting with legs wide open and arms flung to the side. Most are also overweight... certainly not starving. These people, whether black or white, are always waiting for some Magic Obama type to save their ass... using hard working fast blinking peoples tax money to do so. NO THANKYOU !!

[Kathe]

Originally Posted by FIT

Sounds like the best of both worlds.

I believe it is and it is available to anyone. This is why it is important to let each individual be in control of their own money and decisions, not the government. I would like to take care of my own retirement and social security just like I do my own health care, life insurance, etc.

Kathe

[George Sklenicka]

Originally Posted by Tanning Queen

Wait, first he was never there for the racist speeches but now he said he was? WHich is it? If McCain did the same thing, he would be getting KILLED right now in the media over it. WTF?

Only one place to see that...

[Kathe]

Originally Posted by FIT

Sounds so simple Queen. But it's not.

My dad passed away when I was 11. He didn't need life insurance. He was only 30. Well when his plane went down my Mom was screwed. She had two kids to raise with only a high school diploma. She worked two jobs and took nothing from others. No welfare. No food stamps. Just hard work.

She deserves alot of credit but she had something going for her that many do not. She was white.

My mom worked in a doctor's office by day and a convenience store at night. It was a big office. There were probably 20+ medical assitants. Her night job had maybe another dozen employees.

I can remember it like it was yesterday. It was the mid-80's and she made enough to keep us in a good home in a good neighborhood. What really stands out in my mind was that there wasn't one non-white employee at either location.

What jobs would have been available to her if she were Black or Hispanic or even Asian? Not the jobs she had. We wouldn't have grown up in the great surroundings we did. We wouldn't have gone to the great school we did. We wouldn't have had the same opportunity.

You want them to get a job. Well some WANT to work. And yes other's don't. It's just not as simple as you make it out.

This is actually not the governments responsiblity. Way back when things got started things like this were taken care of by the church. Even Jesus talked about the widows and orphans. The government was not in charge of taking care of the less fortunate, the church was. In your case it was the church that should have stepped in and helped out. I'm sorry they didn't. But then again, many have thrown God out and wanted more government instead. I see that is working out really well.

Kathe