Thoughts on the Berman Campaign...

[Don]

Using an "open" forum to discuss an "industry sensitive" topic like this (IMHO) is not wise. Or does "management" think that gratuitously providing our enemies/regulators/media with information that they can use against us makes sense in order to gain a few more "hits" on this website?

[JeffK]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The stated goal was to raise $250K.

The fund raising efforts exceeded everyone's expectations.

And here I thought the entire campaign was a systemic failure from A to Z.

I apologize to the ITA. Plain and simple.

Jeff...so they didn't abandon their judgement- you abandoned yours, or rather, let them decide for you.

If don't have confidence in your own judgement, what makes you think your judgement is accurate now?

Recognizing that someone is more competent and qualified than you are, then watching and learning from them isn't always a bad thing.. particularly considering I began the evaluation process from a position of total ignornace..

My approach yielded the the best possible result under the circumstances.. So I guess your point would carry a bit more weight had my approach not been, you know, the correct one.. and, you know, not worked.

[JeffK]

Originally Posted by sunsally

While the Berman money was "separate", if you add up the total funding, you will still see, proportionally, the largest contribution came from vendors.

If you think about it, they're the ones who ought to be spearheading the whole thing... they're the ones with the (presumably trained and) qualified marketing people on their respective staffs...

The goal was met - and exceeded. You can continue to argue that the goal SHOULD HAVE BEEN something else, based on some desire for a "Got Tan" type campaign of the sort that costs "Got Milk" $11M or $55M or whatever the crazy number it was that I presented before. But this was not supposed to be that (which, while catchy, has not been that effective in increasing milk drinking by the way),

With all due respect.. the campaign coined the "Got Milk?" phrase that is now deeply ingrained into pop culture/society..

That's the best $11M-$55M the dairy association (or whomever produced the ads) could have spent and got a result that will resonate for decades.. and will be studied endlessly..

What would the Berman/tanning lesson be in university marketing classes?

[Robbie]

Bermans is a lesson in earned media- controversial targeted advertising that converts a media campiagn into a news story, "earning" additional media coverage. It's really brilliant and I am much indebted to them for introducing me to this concept.

Don makes a very valid point. Can a moderator move this thread to an industry professionals forum please?

Incidentally Don, I am always writing to a "larger" audience but I grant you, some topics are sensitive.

and to my friend Jeff...do you recognize a distinction between observing others and coming to your own conclusions versus copying others because they are successful?

Your "approach" is the dictionary definition of pragmatism...it worked so it must be right. This unprincipled approach is not a wise long term winning strategy.

If you don't believe me, just follow your own method and accept it as true, because I have more salons than you do

[solman]

Originally Posted by Don

Using an "open" forum to discuss an "industry sensitive" topic like this (IMHO) is not wise. Or does "management" think that gratuitously providing our enemies/regulators/media with information that they can use against us makes sense in order to gain a few more "hits" on this website?

Don, don't go there!

[solman]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Don makes a very valid point. Can a moderator move this thread to an industry professionals forum please?

Incidentally Don, I am always writing to a "larger" audience but I grant you, some topics are sensitive.

Not you too Robbie!!

[Tanning Queen]

We dont have a private forum to move it to. Sorry.

[JeffK]

Originally Posted by Robbie

and to my friend Jeff...do you recognize a distinction between observing others and coming to your own conclusions versus copying others because they are successful?

There's a time to lead and a time to follow. For me, my experience taught me it was clearly a time to follow.

Your "approach" is the dictionary definition of pragmatism...it worked so it must be right. This unprincipled approach is not a wise long term winning strategy.

It wasn't a long term strategy at all.. And again - I'd give deeper consideration to your critiques about this had I made a mistake with my approach..

If you don't believe me, just follow your own method and accept it as true, because I have more salons than you do

I would have, but the manufacturers have a larger stake than you do.. So I followed them instead..

Now that the first campaign is over, the fact is had I followed you I would have made the wrong choice..

However you have helped me see that the Berman/ITA team is even more of a hopeless farce than I even imagined.. The only people talking positively about them are people who expected mediocrity... well congratulations, you got what you expected -- just as the ITA met their $250k fundraising goal.. hip hip? hooray?

I feel I have nothing new to add to the Berman subject.. well already know it has been an endless stream of defeats.. and until the ITA figures out how to win at the PR game, all they are doing is HURTING salon owners everywhere as they show up and prove what amateurs they are, and get their butts kicked in every forum/debate they enter...

Support them if you want to, and some of you who make excuses for them can even do that if you want to.. I'm sorry, but this is NOT better than "nothing". Personally I wish we got "nothing" instead of the gaffe parade that $400,000 got...

In hind sight maybe we should be thankful that $400,000 was all they got to play with... If you could screw up $400k that badly, just imagine how rediculous they could have made tanning look had they got their mitts on millions..

Anyway, I think I'll switch from transmit to receive from now on about this.. it's been educational, but I don't know what more I have to add that I haven't already said twice or three times by now..

[Robbie]

Tanning Queen...there is no private forum anywhere on this site...not even the Pub? How long would it take to set one up?

I sense from Solman that there is some politics involved?

Excuse my ignorance but I'm not much for searching old threads

[Robbie]

Whose advice did you copy Jeff, in not supporting the Berman campaign? The list of contributiors reads like a who's who of tanning. Who are the captains of Industry you copied in not contributing?

All the great ones did contribute.

Only someone who contributes nothing, would dare to have the gall to say that $25,000, $15,000, $10,000, $5,000 and even $1,000 donations are just token amounts and don't reflect genuine support.

They asked for $250,000...they got more support than they bargained for...over $400,000 (you have already apologized for your error here).

Now you're wishing it never happened.

When the fight is on...and it is on...some people cower in the corner afraid to provoke the bully...scared into inaction.

History knows these people as cowards.

Go ahead and run Jeff...it looks like you are even about to run away from this thread. Go ahead.

There are plenty of heroes willing to fight in your stead.

[Tanning Queen]

Not one area at all Robbie. As much as the general population here wanted it, it was decided by management that there was too much work involved to set it up and manage it so it never happened.

Wish it was different but I dont make the rules here.

[Kathe]

I would be happy to manage a private industry only forum.

[solman]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Tanning Queen...there is no private forum anywhere on this site...not even the Pub? How long would it take to set one up?

I sense from Solman that there is some politics involved?

Excuse my ignorance but I'm not much for searching old threads

I'm not sure, but I believe the thread in question got zapped. That's the least of our problems though...we're all in big trouble now.

[sunsally]

Originally Posted by JeffK

With all due respect.. the campaign coined the "Got Milk?" phrase that is now deeply ingrained into pop culture/society..

That's the best $11M-$55M the dairy association (or whomever produced the ads) could have spent and got a result that will resonate for decades.. and will be studied endlessly..

What would the Berman/tanning lesson be in university marketing classes?

JeffK -

If their goal was to get a phrase that would be deeply ingrained into pop culture/society, you are right - it was a great success!

If their goal was to create an increase in milk consumption (which would make a LOT more sense for that kind of budget!) - it was a miserable failure! The downward slide has been stemmed, and at this point, it is being studied whether that was a result of the campaign (which could therefore be considered at least a modest success) or if it just finally reached the low point it was going to reach on it's own at approximately the same time. Judges are still out on that.

So - if the GOAL of the Berman campaign had been to be studied in University Marketing Classes - it MAY have failed. Although - that was NOT the goal! Even if some WISH that had been the goal.

And - as an aside, I think their ability to achieve EARNED MEDIA, and what companies can learn from THAT - as Darque Tan has - is certainly worthy of discussion and dissection in an advanced graduate marketing class!

[sunsally]

Originally Posted by Kathe

I would be happy to manage a private industry only forum.

As was I. And others....

[sunsally]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Whose advice did you copy Jeff, in not supporting the Berman campaign? The list of contributiors reads like a who's who of tanning. Who are the captains of Industry you copied in not contributing?

All the great ones did contribute.

Only someone who contributes nothing, would dare to have the gall to say that $25,000, $15,000, $10,000, $5,000 and even $1,000 donations are just token amounts and don't reflect genuine support.

They asked for $250,000...they got more support than they bargained for...over $400,000 (you have already apologized for your error here).

Now you're wishing it never happened.

When the fight is on...and it is on...some people cower in the corner afraid to provoke the bully...scared into inaction.

History knows these people as cowards.

Go ahead and run Jeff...it looks like you are even about to run away from this thread. Go ahead.

There are plenty of heroes willing to fight in your stead.

As for the contributions......

Darque Tan gave $30,000

Salty Sunfish gave $365 ($1/day)

Robbie doesn't have 82 stores (yet) to my 1, so I guess he was a bit more generous than I was. Although - he may make 82 times my profits - in which case, we would be in line.

I didn't ask ETS or Ergoline or even Highline Capital to show me their balance sheets to determine if the amount they gave was "proportional" to what I was giving. Not sure the impact would be proportional to a lotion disty vs. a lamp dealer vs. an equipment manufacturer vs. a salon owner vs. a salon chain either.

It was a "donation". I think it is a huge, and fallacious, leap to say that those that gave were somehow "signaling" a lack of support for the project through their pledges. Quite the opposite in my opinion.

[JeffK]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Go ahead and run Jeff...it looks like you are even about to run away from this thread. Go ahead.

There are plenty of heroes willing to fight in your stead.

I have nothing else useful to add, Robbie. I've been saying the exact same things about this exact same topic for a year now..

If it makes anyone happy, if I come up with something new to break us out of this conversational circle, I'll say it..

[Robbie]

Nothing useful to add?

That implies you already delivered something useful.

Trust me, you didn't

[Brian Oshman]

There is a private forum here but if I move it there then none of you will no longer be able to read or contribute to this thread any longer.

[Tanning Queen]

Ok, sorry. Wasnt including the Mod Den as that since no one has access but a select few.